Curse

Armed Silon · Nov 30, 2009, 11:01 PM // 23:01

for me I think that grinding is all about personal preference.

1. most titles can be easily acheived now, plan example is ss/lb before you either grind farm in DoA to get LB or do desolation run for both, but I found on my 2nd gwamm that I more or less maxed the titles just by playing through NF NM/HM missions and vanq np to max titles.

2. If you dont wanna grind titles dont play for fun, o wait this is guild wars your not allowed to have fun anymore :S

3. I have to agree with LDOA is really the only grind pve title these days cause everything else kinda blends into each other with all the books/bounties/quests that you have.

We could always go back to trying to max un/lucky without lockpicks or Treasure Hunter and Wisdom character based instead of account if you like, then QQ about grind

As for making pve only skills requirements lower, sorry no I think if you want to use a pve skill and want max damage/heal w/e for minimum effort your lazy and need to get out there and work for what you want.

GG GL BB

Armed Silon · Nov 30, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

[QUOTE= At the moment I am working on the grind titles, LDOA, wisdom, treasure, lucky, and unlucky. Will I finish them, probably not but it still gives me something to do when guild groups aren't forming or I just have a few minutes. [/QUOTE]

Sorry dude I disagree about wisdom TH Un/lucky these are pretty good synergy together now that picks are about and sure its a grind but when you can get between 0-3 chests every 45 seconds *coughs ice cliff chasms coughs* It isnt that hard to get these titles anymore.

Only titles now (PVE ONLY) that is considered grind are luxon/kurzick and LdoA <---------afk dl ftw

Shut A You Face · Nov 30, 2009, 11:38 PM // 23:38

The name of this thread should be..."Why you should just give me the titles". Everyone else before us had to work at them.
My feeling is if you don't want to "waste" your time getting them, then don't. I don't feeling that I'm ENTITLED to these titles because I own the games.
Bad thread.

/not signed

Johny bravo · Nov 30, 2009, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armed Silon

Sorry dude I disagree about wisdom TH Un/lucky these are pretty good synergy together now that picks are about and sure its a grind but when you can get between 0-3 chests every 45 seconds *coughs ice cliff chasms coughs* It isnt that hard to get these titles anymore.

Only titles now (PVE ONLY) that is considered grind are luxon/kurzick and LdoA <---------afk dl ftw

I agree Treasure, wisdom, lucky, and unlucky can all be worked on at the same time. So really its only a single grind for 4 titles. Even those aren't too bad.

Zahr Dalsk · Dec 01, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

I was going to say that GW has no grind, but then spotted title skills on your third line.

So, uh, yeah... in future, titles that involve actual skills usable ingame should be confined to things like campaign completion. Doing missions - and doing them only once, or twice if you count hard mode - not grinding.

snowman relic · Dec 01, 2009, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Free maxed titles for every whiny bitch who can't be bothered working for them? Nah, please, they've been nerfed enough to cater to the QQ crowd. There is no hard title left in the game on the PvE side... many have been reduced to just a few days effort, some are weekend jobs... only Drunkard and LDoA stand out, and most whiners macro drunkard....

id like to say that survivor is a pain to completly max because i swear anet sets the monsters on u when you are near max (i had max armor and +hp and still got targeted) so pve titles are way easy besides LDoA (ovious reasons ) drunkard (expensive and time consuming) survivor (hard to survive on the last few exps) if you want to complain about unfairness look at like the gladiator title raised becuase of TA from 25 for r1 50 r2 and so on to 100 r1 200r2 with TA gone put it back instead of winiers complaining about easy titles?

Reverend Dr · Dec 01, 2009, 01:05 AM // 01:05

This is something that many just seem to not understand or seem to ignore.

People like grind

Look at how many games are grind heavy that are beloved: WoW, EQ, Diablo. If its poorly designed then grind is monotonous, but if its well done then grind is just more time that one is spent enjoying the game. Grinding games are synonymous with gear or powers that improve over time. This creates an atmosphere of seniority, where long time players have more advantages over the new superstars other than knowledge of the surroundings; the old players generally prefer this while new player generally don't mind it.

This isn't to say that games should all be grinding based, this is simply why many people enjoy grinding, why many people that enjoy grinding don't realize that they enjoy a grinding game. There are so many people that think that they don't want a grinding game, but in reality they don't like the attributes of a non-grind game and prefer those of a grinding game.

I think a lot has been confused over the years as many people that actually would prefer a grinding game (or a single player game) have had too much influence in their feedback.

laurana half elf · Dec 01, 2009, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Thank you for a well written and structured paragraph that conveys your ideas.
So much more welcome than the random idiot who posts a page long rant.

I absolutely agree with you and think that the faction and rep titles could be lowered to 3/4 their current maximum to make it easier to obtain them.

snowman relic · Dec 01, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by laurana half elf

Thank you for a well written and structured paragraph that conveys your ideas.
So much more welcome than the random idiot who posts a page long rant.

I absolutely agree with you and think that the faction and rep titles could be lowered to 3/4 their current maximum to make it easier to obtain them.

i dont agree all rep titles should be lowered the luxon and kurzick ones are fine i dont grind i rarly ever farm luxon points yet i can get 55,000 points being afk (not leeching or botting) i think anet should just lower the Eton ones if they lower any

BlackSephir · Dec 01, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

This is something that many just seem to not understand or seem to ignore.

People like grind

Good to know, I find it boring, repetitive and disgusting but apparently I like it.
I wonder why I'm not playing WoW or Aion.

Arduin · Dec 01, 2009, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

They aren't indication of skill anyway,just their tolerance for grind/farming/samething.

Hmm, yes. Anet deviated a bit too much from their skill>time in that case.

But mostly I think because people wanted to.

drkn · Dec 01, 2009, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

In the end, titles are optional. If you want to max them, and experience that as grind and find out you can't stand it...

So, I think GW has nearly no grind. Just achievements that take a lot of dedication and time to get.

and that's all. the reputation titles ain't insane, anyway - i've maxed them with no rush, just doing a few quests when i had some spare time, and eventually turned in all remaining books to max everything. it felt rewarding and i haven't frustrated along the way about the grind, maybe just about the irritating flame traps at oola's or long and boring fights at dd.
what i found more irritating is the cash titles. drunkard, party animal and sweet tooth should be somehow eased. since the prices are stable for a looong time now, i'd like to see anet introducing alcohol/sweets/party stuff at the merchants (in just one area per campaign for example) near or lower than the current market price. a dwarven ale for 100g at the merchant would eventually lead to a lowered market price. same with the other two. it is insane that one has to spend over 2M gold or insanely much time of grinding to attain a title that gives relatively nothing except fun.

Zahr Dalsk · Dec 01, 2009, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

This is something that many just seem to not understand or seem to ignore.

People like grind

No. See my post here. People don't like grind, they like having things that other people don't, which they can then use to try to make themselves feel like they aren't miserable failures in real life. Grind is merely the easiest means of bringing this about.

ArenaNet were smart about this and made these advantages purely cosmetic, so that those who wanted could have them and the rest of us could play a game. Unfortunately they've been turning in the direction of rewarding grind with more potent ingame abilities, something that they used to be strongly against. (They went from smart to idiots.)

Anyways, yeah, people don't like grind, they just like things that they can try to feel superior about. If we could keep these things and replace the grind with a different way of getting them (like, as a random example, win:loss ratio on a given day for a particular arena, displayable as a title) people would just as easily leap to that instead. And that way there'd be some actual skill and gameplay involved. Instead of WoW grind titles, we could have titles that proclaim the user's current skill in the manner of an FPS scoreboard.

upier · Dec 01, 2009, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

In the end, titles are optional. If you want to max them, and experience that as grind and find out you can't stand it...

So ... you are free to disregard them, the same way you are free to not take SF into your instance if you don't like it?
And if that is reason enough to not change titles, is that reason enough to not change SF?
AKA don't like it, don't use it?

Reverend Dr · Dec 01, 2009, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

People don't like grind

Age of Conan
Aion
City of Heroes/Villains
Dark Ages of Camelot
Diablo
Everquest
Final Fantasy XI
Granada Espada
Lineage
Maple Story
Perfect World
Ragnarok
Shadowbane
Star Wars: Galaxies
Ultima Online
Warhammer online
World of Warcraft

No, people like grind. Just because you don't like grind, doesn't mean everyone agrees with you. (or you are one of the many people where what you want and what you think you want are two different things)

Lets take away all grind. We are left with a game where your last gaming session will have no influence upon your next gaming session. This really is fine for PvP, your old matches really don't have an influence on your next match. This has worked well for games such as Starcraft, Warcraft (& DotA), and a number of FPS's, but in case you haven't noticed those games are just much different and attract a different crowd from RPG players.

It is flat out impossible to have an RPG PvE game without having grind. PRG PvE is grind. The carrot of a new level, a new power, or a new magic item constantly dangling in front of the player, that is grind. The trick to game design is to hide the grind or make the grind enjoyable. Some companies have done a fairly good job of this (even though I don't personally enjoy the game, Blizzard has done a very good job) while others have done so poor a job that the game itself appears as nothing more than grind (FFXI, Lineage).

PvP-based games can eliminate grind entirely. The grind for PvP titles in GW is irrelevant to the people that matter. A player with a good attitude, reasonably intelligent, a little sociable, and no talent what-so-ever is going to go farther than someone with just hero r12 and champ r5. PvE RPG games simply cannot eliminate grind, because that is the basis of PvE RPG games.

BlackSephir · Dec 01, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

No, people like grind. Just because you don't like grind, doesn't mean everyone agrees with you.

Oh, okay I guess that just means I'm not a person.
As stated above, PEOPLE want to be unique. Unfortunately most MMO devs aren't creative enough to think of a way to be unique without grind. If they came up with it and removed the grind people would still play the game.

Reverend Dr · Dec 01, 2009, 02:09 PM // 14:09

How the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO do I make an RPG game where my last game session has no effect upon my current game session?

Only after you answer that will you have a way to eliminate grind.

Hint: Anet based GW on skill>time. No where in that do they say that the game doesn't have grind, nor do they insinuate anything of the sort.

BlackSephir · Dec 01, 2009, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

How the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO do I make an RPG game where my last game session has no effect upon my current game session?

Why would you and what has that to do with grind?

Reverend Dr · Dec 01, 2009, 02:18 PM // 14:18

What carries over, that is your progress, that is grind, that is why RPG and grind are synonymous.

EDIT: Whether that progress be thinly veiled as numbers along a title or something deeper like a mission/quest chain, it is grind.

BlackSephir · Dec 01, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

What carries over, that is your progress, that is grind, that is why RPG and grind are synonymous.

EDIT:

Lolno. That's not grind. Even better, RPGs and grind were never synonymous. MMOs and grind were.